[Thankfully, Lilith doesn't have any opinions on what's the 'right way' to kill the enemy: they just need to die. The Knights favored eating hearts but that's because doing that stopped the flow of the dark magic cast. In the end, dead was dead and why did it matter how they died?]
Then I wish you luck in ripping them to shreds. But that doesn't explain why the Garou disagree about how to fight the Wyrm.
Right. Sorry. [Rowan had forgotten the question in the battle to keep their anger under control, so they're glad she brought it back up.]
Actually, that's sort of it, really. There's thirteen tribes, right? We all look at things slightly differently. If you asked me and Ren about Silent's tribe, you'd get two answers. Same for me and Silent about Ren's. I'm pretty sure Ren and Silent'd give the same about mine, but like I said, we're the only ones that really do anything with tech, and people don't like us much for it. My tribe does a lot of infiltration, taking down companies from the inside, taking power from corrupt people. Other tribes would rather go straight for an individual's throat. Some of us work together better than others, but the reason there are tribes is 'cos of those differences.
I could have ended up at the Bone Gnawer or Fianna sept when I first changed - in theory, anyway - but I'm pretty sure they would have booted me right towards the Glass Walkers even if that were the case, 'cos that's just who I am. Some people aren't so obvious, but the tribe's Totem'll only accept someone who fits.
[They glance at her, and then chuckle.] I'm pretty sure you'd be a Black Fury, if you'd been born in our world.
[Lilith raised an eyebrow at the whole Black Fury comment, but decided not to ask for more information about that tribe. It bothered her a bit to refer to these groups of werewolves as tribes, but she knew it was because of her ancestry and nothing actually relevant.]
Like people gather together so it makes sense that something similar applies to Garou. So your packs are all the same tribe?
Yeah, exactly. Packs can be a bit of a mix, though. Septs are usually mostly one tribe - mine's like, basically all Glass Walkers, though we're a bit extreme 'cos no one else really wants to live in the city. I think in others it can be a bit more balanced, although you normally have one dominant tribe.
And since packs normally come out of the sept, they tend to be mostly that tribe, but not always. We got the only Get in the sept in our pack, and our sept ain't his home sept - he'll probably go home once he's... sorted his shit out. Sappho was the same, she was with us while she did her degree, but she's gone home to Greece now. And Ami's Bone Gnawer, but we got a handful of them, 'cos they also live in the cities.
So if your packs are composed of a variety of tribes and they work together to fight the Wyrm, why can't the septs put their differences aside to fight the Wyrm? It seems to me that's far more important than personal pride and getting the glory. Different tactics are necessary to tackle any multifaceted enemy.
At least that's what we have to do with the mages.
'Cos a pack is a handful of people, and a sept is... well, it depends on the size, but normally less than a hundred. It's easier to work with someone you know personally than that faceless person over there, even if they are also Garou. I ain't managed to get on Silent's tits so far, and visa versa, even though she's a Talon and I'm a Glass Walker.
It's the same as humans again. How many times have you heard some racist fuckwit exclude their one neighbour from the shit they're spewing. You know "oh, except for the Patels, they're okay!"
Yes, but humans don't have a purpose that's greater than the individual like we do. They can have their petty and racist arguments. Werewolves have a sacred duty that trumps everything.
[Lilith wasn't accusing the Garou of not being dedicated to fighting the Wyrm at all, but honestly confused as to why this is an issue. Even though the Knights have had to take tactics Lilith didn't like, she still followed through with them because the goal was more important than personal comfort.]
Yeah, we do, but a sacred duty doesn't stop someone from being a pillock. And when you literally can't see eye to eye about the way to carry that duty out... Silent's tribe wants to wipe out all humans. Full stop, end of story. I can't agree to that.
Why do the... Red Talons? Why do they think that's how to win? Humans aren't responsible for corruption. They're just a tool being used. It's like going after the symptoms instead of cutting the cancer out.
[Wait.]
...aren't you all part human at least or did I misunderstand that?
You try telling them that! And yes, we are, that's part of what makes it so dumb.
...I guess some of my tribe also think we can do just fine ignoring the wolf side, but that's just dumb too. [They admit, a little reluctantly.] Problem is, it's well rooted dumb, the tribes have all been around since pre-history. [They roll their eyes.]
Clearly some of them can see reason. Not that I want to give her any credit on principle right now, but Silent was definitely not kill all humans given Peony. Maybe they just need a leadership change. She can't be the only one.
Regardless, there are thirteen tribes you said. So who actually leads your nation? Can't have one of those without a prime minister, president, monarch, council, etc. Or is nation being used to just describe a collection of ethnically related tribes because people are lazy?
Yeah, I don't know how she got there, but it's good to see. She's been away from her tribe for a long time, though. [They almost let slip to Lilith that she was somewhere else before coming here, but catch themself, not knowing if Silent would like Lilith to know that. And as it's nothing to do with the Garou, but something personal to Silent they don't feel like they can make that decision.]
And there's no leader. It's an alliance, more than anything else. Sometimes leaders from some of the tribes will try and influence it, but there's no real organisation. It's a nation 'cos we all came out of the one nation that came before the tribes.
So you're all essentially like First Nations people then except you're werewolves. I can work with that.
[It sort of explained a lot to Lilith. She might not be a big participant in her own heritage, but she wasn't still a part of it.]
So let's circle back to this whole Garou stealing each others' loved ones. The fuck is that about? I get that it's a tactic used when targeting specific people to hurt them or manipulate them, but you all made it sound like it's a far more common thing. And the tribes shouldn't be fighting each other, so...?
You'd know better than me on that, I wouldn't even wanna presume I know the first thing about First Nations people. [As much as they'd like to be able to say otherwise, they know enough to know they shouldn't even try to claim any kind of knowledge.
And as to the second question, they scratch their cheek as ever when they think, piecing together the pieces in a way to try and explain things to her.] Honestly, I don't know how often it happens, I just know that it's a thing. 'Cos we're born, not made, right? And we're fighting a losing war, and there aren't enough of us, so fertility and having kids is a massive fucking deal.
[They glance at her, take a moment, then take a deep breath. She's a werewolf, she'll find out sooner or later, and they'd rather tell her than have her find out by scent, the same way Silent did.] It's enough to keep me from the next rank for probably a year or two, maybe more, past when I should have progressed, just 'cos I'm 'self gelded'. [They roll their eyes heavily, but there it is.] And no, it ain't nice, and it sucks even worse when you don't come from the system and can see it for what it is, but if you come from within the system, what else do you know, right?
Anyway, so we need more cubs. And when we breed with one another, you get a Metis, and they're all infertile and disabled in some way or another, so you can guess how the traditional tribes cope with that. [Rowan rolls their eyes again, their voice dripping with disapproval.] It's against the Litany, in any case. So we need to breed with kinfolk - people who have a werewolf in the family but ain't one themself. And that means to a lot of people, kinfolk become a resource. Breeding stock. On top of being our access to the other side, of course.
And, before you get angry, I don't think that's what Silent thinks of Peony, not one bit. By not accepting Silent's claim, you accidentally made her think that you might do that. Remember, she ain't human. What you say don't mean much to her, not when you're getting your hackles up anyway, and she don't know nothing about women's rights or positive language. First time she was lupus around me, she came and stuck her nose right in my crotch to try and figure out what's going on down there, just 'cos she smelt it was different.
[Lilith was silent, listening, as Rowan talked. She didn't really care about Rowan's nonbinary status nor the fact that they've made themselves infertile. Humans did that when they don't want children or have decided they've had enough. Or keeping the baby-making parts was dangerous for the person. What she did react to was 'breeding stock'. She was too educated, to much of a feminist, to not react to that.
Lilith was immediately up on her feet moving away from Rowan directly to her window. Eyes glowing, she grasped the sill and stared out the window.]
I'm still listening.
[Her voice was calmer than she looked, her shoulders tense and her knuckles white. People weren't property. People weren't cattle. People shouldn't be forced to procreate if they don't want children. Reproductive rights were a HUGE thing for Lilith. She did at least continue listening to the rest of what Rowan had to say before she ripped the windowsill off like it was paper. Leaving it where it was, she turned around and sat down on the floor, back to the wall, and rest her head back against the wall with closed eyes for a couple deep breaths.]
Two women can't breed. And she flat out said she didn't care who Peony had sex with. This keeps sounding more personal the more you explain things.
It's obvious to me that whatever gene that determines whether someone is Garou is recessive. I understand genetics, but how the fuck do you even know someone is carrying the gene?
[The show of strength and anger might be impressive to someone who isn't Garou, but to Rowan the show of control is more so. For a moment they were fully prepared for her to lash out at them, but she didn't. So they sit still, understanding her anger, but still frustrated that she won't listen to them properly.]
Mostly people know 'cos they follow the blood lines. I know Silver Fangs have family trees going back to the fucking dark ages. You always get people that no one knows about - no one knew about my mum, or at least I assume so, 'cos no one tried to claim me.
[They take a deep breath, and then sit up straighter.] Lilith, look. Thank you for listening to me so far. [Their voice is soft, gentle, and persuasive, half trying to calm a wild beast, half trying to call to her reasonable side, but more importantly making a last attempt to get this through to her.] I know this angers the fuck out of you. You think I don't understand? This is the stuff I have to live with, back home.
Silent doesn't understand. This is her reality. It's irrelevant that neither of you could have kids with Peony, the only thing that's relevant is that she considers her under her protection and you a threat to her. You know how few wolves there are left in the wild? Imagine that only a handful of them are kinfolk, and that most of them are part of the Red Talon tribe, and what would happen if other tribes decide they want more lupus Garou. I'd not be surprised if she's had members of her family stolen away before. Silent is a victim of a system that she doesn't understand is one.
I hope you're going to have a serious conversation with her in a way she'll understand because I literally told her I wasn't a threat. And she now she's given up her claim of protection. Rather publicly.
[Lilith got up long enough to grab her tome and open to Silent's forfeit of the contest with Ren where she also told someone else that Peony was their responsibility. She put the tome on the bed so Rowan could see it, sitting back down on it instead of going back to sit on the floor.]
And the only reason this matters right now is that I'm going to give you a heads up that Peony and I have been intimate. I didn't know it was her at the time, but when the pretty blonde practically threw herself at me at the bonfire, names didn't come up until afterward. You know, just in case it comes up. I normally don't talk about those I've been with because that isn't anyone else's business.
But I get your point now. And I expect someone to educate her.
I'll take responsibility for talking to her. I dunno what'll come out of it, but I'll take responsibility nonetheless, so if she fucks up again, take it out on me.
[They close their eyes, leaning back on the wall, feeling worn out by the conversation. They had hoped that things would go a bit better than this, but... well, it's a tricky subject to broach. And they do understand Lilith's anger, that's part of the problem. They can't even blame her for sleeping with Peony, because Rowan's met her themself.
After a moment, they open one eye and offer her an apologetic smile.] Sorry about your windowsill. Good news is, it'll be back to normal tomorrow?
I'm not going to take it out on you. There's no cure for stupidity. Perhaps impart to her that is she asks instead of demands, I'm a lot more reasonable.
[Lilith shifted so their shoulders touched.] And I don't care about the windowsill.
[Rowan rests some of their weight against her, glad for the comfort of contact.] It'll be fixed over night in any case. Magic castle, right?
And yeah, I'll tell her that. For the record, I don't think you was unreasonable. [They're just hoping she can be the better person and leave it alone.]
[Rowan smiles, nudging her slightly.] The one advantage to hanging out with other wolves is that it takes more that a bit of anger to scare us off. You ain’t chased me away yet.
I guess you have a point there. I just don't like letting people get too close. Been burned enough times.
[She chuckled.] You know, I wanted to kill Jack when Silverback chose him because he was part of the Order. And then, at the end, it was just me and him standing against Rogwan.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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Then I wish you luck in ripping them to shreds. But that doesn't explain why the Garou disagree about how to fight the Wyrm.
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Actually, that's sort of it, really. There's thirteen tribes, right? We all look at things slightly differently. If you asked me and Ren about Silent's tribe, you'd get two answers. Same for me and Silent about Ren's. I'm pretty sure Ren and Silent'd give the same about mine, but like I said, we're the only ones that really do anything with tech, and people don't like us much for it. My tribe does a lot of infiltration, taking down companies from the inside, taking power from corrupt people. Other tribes would rather go straight for an individual's throat. Some of us work together better than others, but the reason there are tribes is 'cos of those differences.
I could have ended up at the Bone Gnawer or Fianna sept when I first changed - in theory, anyway - but I'm pretty sure they would have booted me right towards the Glass Walkers even if that were the case, 'cos that's just who I am. Some people aren't so obvious, but the tribe's Totem'll only accept someone who fits.
[They glance at her, and then chuckle.] I'm pretty sure you'd be a Black Fury, if you'd been born in our world.
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Like people gather together so it makes sense that something similar applies to Garou. So your packs are all the same tribe?
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And since packs normally come out of the sept, they tend to be mostly that tribe, but not always. We got the only Get in the sept in our pack, and our sept ain't his home sept - he'll probably go home once he's... sorted his shit out. Sappho was the same, she was with us while she did her degree, but she's gone home to Greece now. And Ami's Bone Gnawer, but we got a handful of them, 'cos they also live in the cities.
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At least that's what we have to do with the mages.
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It's the same as humans again. How many times have you heard some racist fuckwit exclude their one neighbour from the shit they're spewing. You know "oh, except for the Patels, they're okay!"
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[Lilith wasn't accusing the Garou of not being dedicated to fighting the Wyrm at all, but honestly confused as to why this is an issue. Even though the Knights have had to take tactics Lilith didn't like, she still followed through with them because the goal was more important than personal comfort.]
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[Wait.]
...aren't you all part human at least or did I misunderstand that?
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...I guess some of my tribe also think we can do just fine ignoring the wolf side, but that's just dumb too. [They admit, a little reluctantly.] Problem is, it's well rooted dumb, the tribes have all been around since pre-history. [They roll their eyes.]
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Regardless, there are thirteen tribes you said. So who actually leads your nation? Can't have one of those without a prime minister, president, monarch, council, etc. Or is nation being used to just describe a collection of ethnically related tribes because people are lazy?
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And there's no leader. It's an alliance, more than anything else. Sometimes leaders from some of the tribes will try and influence it, but there's no real organisation. It's a nation 'cos we all came out of the one nation that came before the tribes.
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[It sort of explained a lot to Lilith. She might not be a big participant in her own heritage, but she wasn't still a part of it.]
So let's circle back to this whole Garou stealing each others' loved ones. The fuck is that about? I get that it's a tactic used when targeting specific people to hurt them or manipulate them, but you all made it sound like it's a far more common thing. And the tribes shouldn't be fighting each other, so...?
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And as to the second question, they scratch their cheek as ever when they think, piecing together the pieces in a way to try and explain things to her.] Honestly, I don't know how often it happens, I just know that it's a thing. 'Cos we're born, not made, right? And we're fighting a losing war, and there aren't enough of us, so fertility and having kids is a massive fucking deal.
[They glance at her, take a moment, then take a deep breath. She's a werewolf, she'll find out sooner or later, and they'd rather tell her than have her find out by scent, the same way Silent did.] It's enough to keep me from the next rank for probably a year or two, maybe more, past when I should have progressed, just 'cos I'm 'self gelded'. [They roll their eyes heavily, but there it is.] And no, it ain't nice, and it sucks even worse when you don't come from the system and can see it for what it is, but if you come from within the system, what else do you know, right?
Anyway, so we need more cubs. And when we breed with one another, you get a Metis, and they're all infertile and disabled in some way or another, so you can guess how the traditional tribes cope with that. [Rowan rolls their eyes again, their voice dripping with disapproval.] It's against the Litany, in any case. So we need to breed with kinfolk - people who have a werewolf in the family but ain't one themself. And that means to a lot of people, kinfolk become a resource. Breeding stock. On top of being our access to the other side, of course.
And, before you get angry, I don't think that's what Silent thinks of Peony, not one bit. By not accepting Silent's claim, you accidentally made her think that you might do that. Remember, she ain't human. What you say don't mean much to her, not when you're getting your hackles up anyway, and she don't know nothing about women's rights or positive language. First time she was lupus around me, she came and stuck her nose right in my crotch to try and figure out what's going on down there, just 'cos she smelt it was different.
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Lilith was immediately up on her feet moving away from Rowan directly to her window. Eyes glowing, she grasped the sill and stared out the window.]
I'm still listening.
[Her voice was calmer than she looked, her shoulders tense and her knuckles white. People weren't property. People weren't cattle. People shouldn't be forced to procreate if they don't want children. Reproductive rights were a HUGE thing for Lilith. She did at least continue listening to the rest of what Rowan had to say before she ripped the windowsill off like it was paper. Leaving it where it was, she turned around and sat down on the floor, back to the wall, and rest her head back against the wall with closed eyes for a couple deep breaths.]
Two women can't breed. And she flat out said she didn't care who Peony had sex with. This keeps sounding more personal the more you explain things.
It's obvious to me that whatever gene that determines whether someone is Garou is recessive. I understand genetics, but how the fuck do you even know someone is carrying the gene?
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Mostly people know 'cos they follow the blood lines. I know Silver Fangs have family trees going back to the fucking dark ages. You always get people that no one knows about - no one knew about my mum, or at least I assume so, 'cos no one tried to claim me.
[They take a deep breath, and then sit up straighter.] Lilith, look. Thank you for listening to me so far. [Their voice is soft, gentle, and persuasive, half trying to calm a wild beast, half trying to call to her reasonable side, but more importantly making a last attempt to get this through to her.] I know this angers the fuck out of you. You think I don't understand? This is the stuff I have to live with, back home.
Silent doesn't understand. This is her reality. It's irrelevant that neither of you could have kids with Peony, the only thing that's relevant is that she considers her under her protection and you a threat to her. You know how few wolves there are left in the wild? Imagine that only a handful of them are kinfolk, and that most of them are part of the Red Talon tribe, and what would happen if other tribes decide they want more lupus Garou. I'd not be surprised if she's had members of her family stolen away before. Silent is a victim of a system that she doesn't understand is one.
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[Lilith got up long enough to grab her tome and open to Silent's forfeit of the contest with Ren where she also told someone else that Peony was their responsibility. She put the tome on the bed so Rowan could see it, sitting back down on it instead of going back to sit on the floor.]
And the only reason this matters right now is that I'm going to give you a heads up that Peony and I have been intimate. I didn't know it was her at the time, but when the pretty blonde practically threw herself at me at the bonfire, names didn't come up until afterward. You know, just in case it comes up. I normally don't talk about those I've been with because that isn't anyone else's business.
But I get your point now. And I expect someone to educate her.
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[They close their eyes, leaning back on the wall, feeling worn out by the conversation. They had hoped that things would go a bit better than this, but... well, it's a tricky subject to broach. And they do understand Lilith's anger, that's part of the problem. They can't even blame her for sleeping with Peony, because Rowan's met her themself.
After a moment, they open one eye and offer her an apologetic smile.] Sorry about your windowsill. Good news is, it'll be back to normal tomorrow?
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[Lilith shifted so their shoulders touched.] And I don't care about the windowsill.
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And yeah, I'll tell her that. For the record, I don't think you was unreasonable. [They're just hoping she can be the better person and leave it alone.]
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[Lilith was silent for a moment before giving a half-laugh.] I told you I wasn't friendly.
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But no, you just need to learn to navigate it. Or get used to it, I guess. It gets better the more I know someone.
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[She chuckled.] You know, I wanted to kill Jack when Silverback chose him because he was part of the Order. And then, at the end, it was just me and him standing against Rogwan.
Best beer pong loss I ever had.
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